October 6, 2024 | Bonnie Hill Sutton Conservation Commission (SCC) DRAFT Meeting Minutes Non-Public Session Thursday, July 18, 2024 Present: Henry Howell, Chair; Debbie Lang; Chuck Bolduc; Lynn Wittman; Yvonne Howard; and Bonnie Hill. Absent: Don Davis; Joanna Murphy; Jim Morris. Others present: Barbara Fortier, Andy Deegan, Cynde Robbins. Call to order: The meeting was held via Zoom. Henry Howell called it to order at 11:00 AM. Henry prefaced the meeting by saying that although all of the meetings of the Sutton Conservation Commission (SCC) are open to the public, we are entitled to hold non-public meetings in matters such as real estate acquisition, and that the SCC voted to make this meeting a non-public session at our meeting on 7/10/2024. Henry introduced the members of the SCC. The others present introduced themselves as Barbara Fortier, CEO of the Girl Scouts of Eastern MA (GSEMA), Cynde Robbins, incoming president of the Blaisdell Lake Protective Association, and Andy Deegan, land protection specialist at The Ausbon Sargent Land Preservation Trust (ASLPT). John Tilley, the director of Camp Conniston, was invited but could not attend. He would like to receive the meeting minutes. Henry asked Barbara Fortier to start the discussion. She said she has been with the GSEMA for over 20 years. For the last 15 years they have been managing 29 properties in various states of disrepair. They devised a ranking system of 17 criteria which they applied to the properties, placing them into tiers. The highest tier properties continue to receive full investment of resources. The second tier receive smaller investments. The remaining properties were sold. Nine properties were sold in two years. The standards for maintenance of the camps have gone up over the years (ADA compliance, accreditation, etc), adding to the costs. The GSEMA has enormous experience in evaluating properties. Their first approach was to consider open space and conservation. Only one property was sold to a private individual, and that was for use as a rehab hospital for horses. Camp Wabasso was in the second tier of properties. Being two hours away from their core group of clients (Eastern Mass), it was not suitable for day use, and attendance at the summer camp had declined greatly, even before Covid. Therefore, the decision was made to divest the property. On Wednesday, July 24th, a meeting will be held at Sutton Town Hall from 6 to 7:30 PM, with some of her key staff. Some minimal handouts will be provided. It was not to be an open meeting, but meant for abutters and camp alumni, and invitations were sent accordingly. There has been some pushback from volunteers who are against the sale, but if that is brought up, the meeting will be shut down, as the sale will definitely proceed. Anyone attending the meeting will be asked to provide full contact information. Some local residents have expressed interest in purchasing the properties, but offers will not be entertained at the meeting. People will have a chance to make inquiries afterwards through an open channel. A database will capture all of the inquiries. Camp Wabasso consists of 6 parcels, but they were appraised as 3 entities, grouping contiguous ones together. Henry had two questions: Is there a record of how Camp Wabasso was originally obtained by the GSEMA? Are you considering listing at the market value? Ms Fortier replied that when they had their other properties appraised they revealed those figures, and received between 90% and 100% of the appraised values. The proceeds will not be going into some coffer, but will be rolled into supporting programming for other camp properties serving their core constituency. They are looking for a solution that is consistent with Girl Scout values. With the other property sales, they stipulated that Girl Scouts have access to the properties for hiking, etc. Henry reiterated his first question, and Ms Fortier answered that back in the 1960’s, every town in Massachusetts had a separate Girl Scout council. Wabasso was owned by the Newton GS Council. Many merges and consolidations happened over the years. In answer to how Newton got it, she said there is no record of an actual “payment”, and that is as far back as they traced the history. Usually the land was deeded by someone who passed away. Usually properties came to the GS as gifts; they were very rarely purchased. Ms Fortier said there may be three different solutions for the three different parcels. Abutters have expressed interest in all three, and have mentioned conservation. There is very little likelihood that they would entertain an offer for development or housing. The other GS councils are not interested, as they have excess properties themselves. Henry pointed out that the market price is beyond the means of most non-profits, which is an issue. Andy said he spoke to Sally Manikian of the Conservation Fund. She has worked with several organizations to purchase camps. It’s difficult, as you have to find a special owner to manage a camp. He said the SCC could reach out to her. Debbie asked if she could join us at he meeting, and Andy said probably not, as she is located in the North Country. She is the rep for all of New England. Debbie asked if he could set up a Zoom with Sally and Barbara. Barbara Fortier said they don’t want to do a Zoom. We will meet next week, minutes will be sent out, and there may be more meetings after that. In answer to Debbie’s question about a specific time frame, she said past sales have taken 12 to 24 months, or for a couple, 2. They would like it to be shorter. By the end of the calendar year it would be nice to have some kind of commitment. In answer to Cynde’s question about the appraisal figures, she said the total is $4.2 million for all 6 parcels, in the 3 chunks. She will share the specific appraisal value when interest is expressed. On one of the 9 properties they sold they had to have more than one appraisal. In 8 of the 9 properties, the buyer offered the full appraisal value. Yvonne asked if they were not interested in selling for development, and Ms Fortier said they want to be consistent with GS values. She said the land is very attractive to developers, who have expressed interest in it, but the GSEMA has not mapped out steps for that. Her answer to the question about whether she has worked with the Trust for Public Lands was no. She asked if Sutton has an open space plan, and said that one town purchased a camp because they were in dire need of recreation facilities, and that worked out very well. Henry closed the meeting by saying that the meeting on July 24th will be an opportunity for more questions and comments. Adjournment: The Zoom session ended at 11:40 AM. Respectfully submitted, Bonnie Hill, Secretary
