April 12, 2024 | Town Admin TOWN OF SUTTON Pillsbury Memorial Hall 93 Main Street Sutton Mills, NH 03221 PLANNING BOARD MEETING DRAFT Minutes for Tuesday March 26, 2024, at 7:00 p.m. CALL TO ORDER: Chair Teaster called the meeting to order at 7:00pm. He noted there was a quorum and took the roll. ROLL: Jason Teaster (Chair), Roger Wells (Vice Chair), Christine Fletcher, David Hill, Chuck Bolduc, Glenn Pogust Glenn Pogust (Ex Officio), Kristin Angeli (arrived shortly after roll was taken) ABSENT: Peter Blakeman, ALSO PRESENT: Andy and Dorothy Jeffrey, Cheryl Bentley, Joanna Murphy, Lee Booker, Jane Williamson, Michael Tardiff (CNHRPC) PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case PB 2024-01 Jeffrey Conditional Use Permit for a driveway crossing multiple wetland buffers Peter said that the application was complete and the Board should accept it as such. It was moved by Roger Wells and seconded by David Hill to accept the application as complete. The motion was approved unanimously. Chair Teaster gave the floor to the applicant to present their case. Dorothy Jeffrey and Andy Jeffrey were there with Cheryl Bentley, Wetlands Scientist and Engineer. Dorothy explained that they had an existing conditional approval for subdivision and are there for a conditional use permit to cross the wetland buffers. Peter said the Jeffreys got a zoning variance to cross the wetlands the previous Wednesday at the Zoning Board meeting, and have received approval from DES for the wetland crossing. At this point, they are just discussing their crossing of the wetlands buffers. Cheryl Bentley said she put together the application for her clients. The crossings had to be approved by DES, and so her application was based on what DES required. She showed where the crossing was proposed. It was a farm road in the past used by tractors and maybe bikes and walkers. There are two six-inch PVC pipes used as a crossing, which were found by the engineer; they were very well buried and had been there for a long time. These pipes will be replaced with a 15” culvert which will be partially buried so wildlife can cross beneath it. It is sized for a hundred-year storm. Cheryl showed where a functioning man-made stone bridge was made a long time ago. She showed the buffer of the wetland and said they are requesting permission to cross these buffers in the places outlined on the map. Cheryl said everything that is disturbed in the field area will be replanted to keep it a field. A plunge pool was suggested in an area to plan for extra water that may run off of the hill. This pool would also be in the buffer zone. Cheryl explained that one of the conditions of approval was to determine where the steep slopes would be disturbed. This plan avoids the steep slopes altogether. Using the existing road and crossing will cause less disturbance to the stream. Chair Teaster asked for some description of the plunge pool. Cheryl said it is a sediment hold that will contain the water and let it seep down through to the ground. Nothing should flow into the stream. Mr. Jeffrey said even with the strong storms and heavy rains that have happened of late, the stone culverts have worked well and not been overtaken by the water. Roger asked about the first segment of the driveway that is draining toward the road. Cheryl said there is a little bit of a climb but it is mostly flat. Andy said the road agent said they would need to remove a stump in that area but it was fine otherwise. Cheryl said there is no true stream flowing through the property. It is just wet in one spot because of the hill and the storm water that drains through it. There is an intermittent brook on the property that does dry up. In October one of these areas had a slight trickle, but none of the wet areas have anything more than that, even during the “3”/hour storms” this past summer. Chuck Bolduc noted that the Jeffreys also met with the Conservation Commission. The Commission did not have any issue with their plans. Peter said once the applicant has constructed the driveway, they will need to bound it and describe it relative to the deeds for both properties. They won’t get their mylar recorded for the subdivision until that is done. The language from the easement granted from the large parcel to the small parcel will be referenced by individual bounds. After the work is done, this will be completed. This is a condition of approval. Christine asked what would be criteria that the Planning Board is looking for to approve this request. Peter said the Board has to determine if an alternative makes more sense. In this case, it is an existing road and will not disrupt wetlands somewhere else or make the driveway hundreds of feet longer, causing more disruption to land. Peter felt that this plan seemed to be a fairly reasonable choice. This property has a lot of wetlands and steep slopes to contend with as well. Chair Teaster thought this was a reasonable application. It was moved by Glenn Pogust and seconded by Roger Wells to open the discussion to the public. The motion was approved unanimously. No one had any input. It was moved by Glenn Pogust and seconded by Roger Wells to close the public discussion portion. The motion was approved unanimously. Chair Teaster opened the floor to the Board members for discussion. David asked Chuck if the Conservation Commission went to the property. Chuck said that they did not but did not see an issue with the plan. Peter noted that two members of the Zoning Board visited the property before the hearing the previous week. It was moved by Roger Wells and seconded by Glenn Pogust to approve the application as submitted contingent upon the conditions stated at the previous subdivision approval. The motion was approved unanimously. ADMINISTRATIVE: Approval of Minutes of February 22, 2024 Planning Board Meeting This item will be tabled for the next meeting of the Planning Board. OLD BUSINESS: Follow-up Discussion of the Village District Ordinance Chair Teaster said the provision they were trying to put into place did not pass at Town Meeting. The Board had sound intentions and were trying to do a good thing for the town and the town disagreed. That is why it was put on the ballot so they could hear from the citizens. The Town’s records will show why the Board spent time on this ordinance and now they will need to regroup. Roger said they could decide not to pursue it any further and go on to something else, but he didn’t recommend this. Some of the comments from people who were nervous about this felt that the Planning Board should have taken more time to hear from the people and let them feel heard. He thought the Board should take the time to get to a point where they have support. Alternately, in that time if they find that it is still not wanted, they can then move on to something else in the master plan. Roger thought they need people to be invited in so the Board can listen to what they have to say and have a conversation. Misunderstandings could be clarified and a discussion could be had. Peter noted that these types of meetings would need to be noticed as public hearings. Roger suggested doing this kind of thing four times; one for each of the villages. This may take a year or more. Glenn agreed with Roger’s thinking and added that they should move forward with the regulations they have on the table; there were a lot of comments about how the ordinance would allow uncontrolled development. The regulations demonstrate how intense the process is and how much needs to be presented to get a conditional use permit. It puts an extra “gloss” on what this really is; it isn’t allowing an area of town to be overrun by development. Roger said they need to first, try again and listen to those who are concerned. This is a complicated and sensitive subject and they need to take more time. Christine thought that they could start over, but her feeling is that she would like to do this from the whole town instead of just the villages. The Planning Board was seen in a horrible light and that it has an ax to grind. The only way to change that is to start dialogue with any issue that has to do with the Town. She feels like the village district ordinance suggestion is a raw wound right now. Roger said he thought it was OK to listen about the other issues in the Town but they should also continue listening in particular to those who want to talk about the ordinance. Christine said the State is asking towns to provide more housing. This is a real issue. There are people in Sutton who may not be concerned about the housing problem and therefore don’t feel like it is Sutton’s problem to solve. She feels like there is no common ground among the citizens about some basic things. Chair Teaster said what was on the ballot was not creating any districts, it was just providing a provision to go forward this year to create the districts with the dialogue. It was rejected by the town. Some of the feedback he has received was that there are some things in the current zoning ordinance that should be looked at and tweaked a bit. He thought maybe they could continue this dialogue and talk about some of the good things the the village overlay district would provide. This could help with finding common ground. He felt there was an opportunity to reset the discussion in a positive way. They need to discuss how they could allow for development in their town and meet some goals that the state is passing down to the towns. Roger said there is no point in the Board just saying that things are not “working right.” Part of the issue is how to get people involved and share information with the Planning Board. They need to go back to the master plan and have some more meetings and invite people to come and tell the Town what they want and what words like “rural” mean to them. What does “wanting the villages protected” mean to them? Based on what they heard initially, the Board felt like they were trying to do what the residents wanted. Roger said one way to get people to come is when the issue has to do with where they live. Glenn said people need to understand that their town is becoming too expensive for people to live in who are teachers or are in healthcare. We also have a volunteer fire department that may run short of volunteers. The Planning Board has to be able to communicate the information to and from the citizens effectively because it is easy to make assumptions when the information isn’t out there clearly. The Planning Board has an obligation to explore the things that need to be done to sustain the town. Christine said it was brought up that communication from the Town was bad. Many did not know about the email list. Even though it isn’t part of the Planning Board’s purview, maybe they should figure out how to improve communications. Glenn said on April 8th the Select Board is having a strategic planning session and are inviting everyone in town including all the boards and committees. They will start talking about where the town needs to get things done. One is a better way to communicate; the website is not very effective and the town is behind in the social media game. Roger asked Mike Tardiff (CNHRPC) how to get people to participate. Mike said in Warner, they use a flashing sign on Main Street. He said it is tough; emails work if people know about the email list. The idea of having a bunch of meetings and making sure everything is posted in the paper, is a good idea. He said they could go back to the master plan and revisit some parts. There is a lot of good information there. It isn’t just housing but also economic base, trails, densities, and the table of uses. Now is the time to start to get ready in time for town meeting in 2025. David said over 500 people came to town meeting and about 250 filled out the master plan survey. They need to find out what some of the issues are that the Town should be working on. He wondered if Survey Monkey would be a useful tool again. David wondered if they put the survey out there, with better communication, and keep it simple while addressing some of the issues, could they get a higher expectation for a response? Chair Teaster said the problem was they had a seven-page ordinance they put out which was a lot to comprehend and get through. The message got lost; the intention of the ordinance was to protect the villages. Some people took concepts as concrete plans and worst-case scenarios mushroomed. Getting community input will be good, and the master plan is a solid foundational tool they can use as they continue to move forward. Mike said they were happy to help revisit the master plan and help with a survey. The important part is hearing from people in whatever way works. Chair Teaster asked how the strategic plan would overlap with the master plan. Glenn said it has some to do with communication. People don’t really understand that the Planning Board and Selectboard are responsible for very different things. There is a difference between bridges that are out and economic development in the town. Communication is the main common issue. Glenn said 500 people coming to town meeting is about double the norm. If they do the survey and don’t get 500 again, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t getting the word out. Many people say that with a town with 1,700 registered voters, getting 200 responses to a survey is good. They shouldn’t toss the results if they don’t get the number of surveys back they want. Christine said these jobs (Planning Board member, for instance) is a volunteer job and they may as well spend their time doing some repair to communication and building the groundwork. They don’t want to spend time doing things that always get voted down. Roger said he feels that continuing discussion of this village district ordinance will keep people coming to the meetings to talk. Glenn said if they get some substantive information from folks instead of “just don’t do it” that can help them to help things. Not changing anything means it is going to change in ways you don’t want things to change. Peter thought it would be important to step back on the village district ordinance and divide it into ideological pieces that can be discussed separately; find out who loves and hates each piece and why. There are some things in there that are very useful for the communities. Chuck said people said “no.” That isn’t a loss but it is feedback. The exercise they went through to do what they did was valuable. These things happen all the time; in his professional life, he spends years working on things that go nowhere but at the end he has gained experience and feedback and more people become involved. When these things happen, he typically doesn’t pick them back up and keep going with them. Collaboration over the next year is probably going to be hard to get. When it comes to town meeting time, he feels that the Board will be in the same place again. Chuck worried that they wouldn’t get good collaboration if they pick this up with the intention of taking it to town meeting again. Roger asked what Chuck’s suggestion would be. Chuck thought they should think of another way to approach the ordinance that doesn’t single out the villages. He lives in a village. He doesn’t think they will get good faith collaboration with people but instead a year of stalling and then voting “no” again. Chair Teaster felt they had similar goals but their approach was different; the way they presented their ideas fell flat. Christine said the Board presented the concept when it was done instead of having discussions with the citizens along the way. They should drop back and have discussions not focused on the villages. Roger thought that the village discussion would bring people to meetings and perhaps the good things in the village district ordinance they proposed could still be utilized. Chuck thought they should pivot away from the villages. If they don’t, they will pick up right where they left off. That makes him nervous. Glenn said that if they want to engage people, they need to talk about these kinds of things. If they pivot away from this topic and find they get to the point that people aren’t showing up to meetings, then maybe they bring back the village district discussion to get people involved. Chair Teaster said he thought it was a good idea to pause, refocus on the master plan and engage the community on what they want to adopt. There are some other meaningful things they can do as a board. David said the master plan showed an interested in preserving the rural character of Sutton and the villages. They need to focus on communication and figure out what “preserving the rural character” means to the people. This can be carried out throughout the rest of the discussions they have. He suggested having two meetings a month and the fourth Tuesday of the month could be for people to come talk about what they want to see. HOP Grant Status Glenn thought it was a good time to talk to Mike Tardiff about what they should be doing to satisfy the grant. Mike said they are doing everything they should be and are following their own path. The grantor wants people to be engaged in the discussions of housing, which Sutton is doing. More time has been added to the program and seven towns have come to Invest NH to tell them that this is a long process and they need more than one cycle of town meetings to move things along. Mike said he isn’t worried about the grant and the process and he would be willing to help the town out on those 4th Tuesdays of the month meetings. Glenn asked about the deliverables of the grant. Mike said that the funder needs to understand that this is a process and the Planning Board worked very hard on what was brought to town meeting. It is a marathon and a lot of communities are trying to do the same things. Mike said he has economic information that could be helpful from other towns that he could share at another meeting. Glenn said it would help to get a handle on what does/does not effect taxes. Christine asked what if they can’t achieve the goals that the grant requires. Mike said that they would simply describe the process they went through; there is no guarantee with a public process. It is a process to get through. Roger said the world is going to change Sutton; it already has over the 30 years he has been there. Are those the changes that they who are there now want? If not, they have to do something. If they do nothing, the changes will happen by themselves. Mike said there is a lot of opportunity for more intensive commercial in rural areas, so they should address this in their table of uses. Glenn said people don’t realize what can be done in some zones. A table of uses is better than a special exception. Next Year’s Zoning Changes Peter said some things need to be addressed which are things that people can understand without too much trouble. He drafted these suggested changes last year but put them on the back burner because of the village district ordinance topic that took precedence. They need to clear some things up in the ordinance to keep it legal and correct. Other Cell tower on Wright’s Hill. Peter said that they have decided to put in a propane generator. The original request was to install a diesel generator but they had no provisions for containment if it leaked. The Planning Board said no and now the applicant has decided to install a propane generator. Jason asked what would be done about noise. Glenn said the generator is far from most things and no one should be hearing it. Peter said this has already been approved; it was just the containment and generator type that the Town had a problem with. Chair Teaster asked if there was information to review. Roger said the applicant should provide a drawing of this new design. Peter asked if the Board was opposed to the concept. No one was. Glenn said a propane generator was significantly quieter than a diesel generator. Glenn asked if the applicant should request that the Planning Board amend the condition of approval to use a generator fueled by propane instead of diesel? Peter said he would ask for this. David said the height of the cell tower off of Steven’s Hill Road was increased and wondered why it hadn’t come to the Town. Peter said this is something to be discussed by the Select Board. NEW BUSINESS: Upcoming Meetings: There are no applications for the April meeting. It was decided to meet on April 23rd to take care of some suggested Zoning Ordinance changes. ADJOURNMENT: Chair Teaster adjourned the meeting at 8:46pm. Respectfully submitted, Kristy Heath, Recording Secretary Town of Sutton