TOWN OF SUTTON

Pillsbury Memorial Hall

93 Main Street

Sutton Mills, NH 03221

PLANNING BOARD MEETING

Minutes for Tuesday October 24, 2023, at 7:00 p.m.

 

CALL TO ORDER: Chair Pogust called the meeting to order at 7:00pm. He noted there was a quorum and took the roll.

 

ROLL: Glenn Pogust (Chair), Chuck Bolduc, Jason Teaster, Christine Fletcher, David Hill, Dane Headley

 

MEMBERS ABSENT: Roger Wells (Vice Chair), Peter Blakeman (Alternate), Kristin Angeli (Alternate)

 

ALSO PRESENT: Matthew Taylor, Regional Planning Commission, Joanna Murphy, Walter Baker, Paul Little, Karen and Lee Booker, Alison Jones, John W. Jones, Lynn Wittman, Kimberly Orbeck, Mike Heffernan, Greg and Kathy Gill, Blake Beck, Gene and Deb Swartz, Paul Richardson, Diane Rosewood, Jonathan Brown, Leanne Beck, Rachel and Joshua Ortiz, Eric Werme, Kathleen and Thom Stowell

 

Chair Pogust said the State of NH is asking towns to look at ways to offer varied housing solutions. All the work the Planning Board has been doing on this topic is being paid for through a grant from the State. This isn’t something that the Town is just coming up with; this is something that is based on things people in the town have asked for. Nothing is being imposed on anyone. This is a proposal for an ordinance that would have to be voted on at Town Meeting and would apply to any village overlay district. It provides options for landowners to do something different where the current zoning would not create the opportunity to promote the character of the village. Chair Pogust said the meeting was just an information session and no votes would be taken. The Planning Board is not looking to do anything that the town doesn’t want to do. They are looking for the feedback from the citizens on this proposal.

 

Chair Pogust began a slide show.

 

205 residents of Sutton responded to a master plan survey about what people wanted for goals in the Town. Top goals were to nurture a sense of community, preserve the historical sense, enable varied housing, and improve the tax base. What the Planning Boar5d is proposing will help meet the goals in a reasonable way.

 

Sutton Mills is in the residential zoning district, as are the other villages. The Planning Board is talking about creating an ordinance that would apply to all village overlay districts. Sutton Mills was chosen first because it has the most village character and atmosphere for a walkable community setting. The other villages have Route 144 as their main thoroughfare which creates some other issues.

 

The current zoning requires 2-acre lots and 250’ of road frontage for each parcel in the village. These type of zoning requirements are not friendly to sustaining a village atmosphere. The overlay district is meant to be flexible to allow for appropriate, limited growth, and to try and reinforce the sense of the village atmosphere. The district would span 500’ from the center of the roads in the village, which is approximately 102 acres of land. It would not change the existing zoning. The village district rules only offer an opportunity for owners to improve their property in more flexible ways.

 

A slide was shown to give an example of a possible layout of the village based on the information the Planning Board obtained from public sources. 70 out of 102 acres cannot be developed due to their being in flood plains, wetland/buffers, and conserved land. There were 32 acres out of 102 that would be subject of the overlay rules. Chair Pogust explained the options to increase residential opportunities in the villages, including adaptive re-use, accessory dwelling units, and mixed use.

 

Chair Pogust said before anyone in the village would be permitted to use these new rules, the plans would be scrutinized to make sure they meet the setbacks for buffers, wetlands, etc.

 

More than 50% of those who took the survey about the Town said they were interested in restaurants and small businesses in the villages. Mixed use and varied housing were also popular wishes. These kinds of things can be accomplished with the use of a conditional use permit. This is a better option than going to the Zoning Board of Adjustment for a variance or a special exception. There is no standard that requires the ZBA to impose “guardrails” to say what can or cannot be done to maintain the rural character of the villages. A conditional use permit will have standards for design that would need to be met before development could be done. Pedestrian ways will also be considered.

 

Chair Pogust said they are trying to think of things that people might be interested in doing that may help reinvigorate the villages, and increase the tax base without imposing expenses. They have to figure out a way to reasonably expand the tax base so additional taxpayers can help spread out the costs.

 

Chair Pogust said there are 40 residential units in the village. The current zoning would allow for perhaps two new units. There is a potential for 20 new units, however. The idea that this will happen in a short period of time is unrealistic. Even at the high end, the Planning Board is thinking that over the next 10 years, a maximum of 10 dwellings might be added. Much would need to happen before any plan is approved to make sure it fits the area and state permits would need to be issued for septic/well, etc. He showed ideas of where and how additional dwelling units could be placed.

 

The meeting was opened up to questions from the public.

 

Greg Gill asked if over 1,000 people would vote on something that will apply to a small portion of the population? Greg said if there are 16 or fewer families that will be impacted by these “opportunities” it didn’t seem right that over 1,000 people will be voting on it. He offered that the second two goals proposed by the slide show contradict the first two goals. He appreciated the work that has been done and the grant they are using. He now feels like he should go to a land trust and put his land under conservation so no one will build on it.

 

Chair Pogust said none of the landowners have to do anything, they would just have additional options. The option of putting their land into permanent conservation is and will always be available.

 

Joanna Murphy said she felt the village was already friendly and liked the quiet and peacefulness of it. There are a lot of things that need fixing that are far more important than this proposal. The bridge, which is a connector for people who like to walk has been sitting for two years. Reducing the lot size is going to open a can of worms. What if people around the town also want to change to less than 2-acre lots as well? Chair Pogust said they won’t because the only way the zoning can change outside of a proposed village overlay district is for the Planning Board to determine if it makes sense, and then it needs to be fully vetted before it is then put to a vote by the town. The ordinance does not open the door to do things in other places. Joanne said the plans they are proposing are not going to fix the housing problem. The more houses that come into the area will create higher taxes and it has been proven over and over again. The villages are not the setting for this kind of thing and it is upsetting to her. There are more people who don’t want a coffee shop than do who didn’t take the survey. She wants a quiet place to live and 2-acre minimum lot size.

 

It was asked why wouldn’t the Town push for a business along 114 instead of in the village? Chair Pogust said a coffee shop can go along 114, and the shops within the village they are proposing as permitted in the village are very small. The question is not “why are we imposing this” it is allowing people to do things that are consistent with what has historically existed in the villages.

 

Paul Little said his problem with starting this with Sutton Mills, was what if this ends in disaster (developers building cluster houses, cookie-cutter homes)? He feels the mistake is doing it in one village and one village only. He thinks they should address all the villages at once. Chair Pogust said a developer cannot just do whatever they want under this proposal, but that that could happen without the proposed changes. Under this proposal, the rules will be applied and the Planning Board is proposing a set of rules to prevent the type of abuse referred to by Mr. Little.

 

Lee Booker asked to use the pointer and look at the slide with the housing examples and yellow circles. He pointed out there is an existing house on one spot. A spot that is shown on the map where three houses can go is all wetlands that he owns. Chair Pogust said if it is wetlands, it can’t be built on. Nothing in the proposal would change the rules about where things cannot be built due to wetlands or steep slopes. If there is only the possibility to develop eight additional homes, that is fine. The Planning Board is not proposing to fit 20 additional houses into the village, but to show the areas that could be used for additional development. The Planning Board knows the information they have isn’t 100% accurate, and in the end the existing rules regarding the type of land on which someone can build will stay the same. No one is obligated to develop their property or sell their property – this only gives owners additional options.

 

Chuck Bolduc said there seemed to be a lot of confusion; they are not developers and are not building anything. This is up to the landowner if this goes through if they want to exercise this option. The map they created was based on rough information they have on flood plains, steep slopes and wetlands. They didn’t dig test pits and don’t know where people’s wells are.

 

Joshua Ortiz said the estimate is for 20 or so houses, but actually seems to be about 5 or 6. He asked if there were other ideas or proposals from the State for other alternatives for housing? He agreed that teachers and other low-income people are having a hard time moving into town. Chair Pogust said their proposal for the grant includes a cluster ordinance (which they are working on), and a provision that involves mixed uses. This will need large landowners and developers to get involved. Something else they haven’t discussed yet is workforce housing and senior housing. The way to do this is to offer density bonuses to developers. This is something that they will want to discuss. Chair Pogust said there are 7 members of the Planning Board and they are all volunteer but engaged. The concepts proposed for the villages were presented to everyone in the Town through the Master Plan update. Not everyone agrees on everything.

 

Chair Pogust said the State has the ability to allow someone to improve an under-used building and receive a tax break for a period of time to get them started (developing) before they are reassessed. He said the schools are under-enrolled, and the idea that the services will be expanded by the suggestions they are offering is not substantiated. They aren’t asking for new roads to be built or maintained.

 

Kathy Gill said she appreciated all the work provided by the Planning Board. She thinks they need to work to keep the flavor of the town the way it is. Zoning ordinances and restrictions on buildings are good. She didn’t want to see less than two acre lots and didn’t think more houses made a closer village. She’s been there for 53 years and has seen change, which happens and cannot be stopped. They used to have a lovely general store across the street with a lunch counter. They’d meet and sit on the porch and chat, come up for Sunday morning breakfast. It really helped gel the village. She didn’t think they are talking about Main Street in New London coming to Sutton Mills. There have been small businesses in the village, such as a welding shop and small engine shop as well. 53 years ago there were six houses on Roby Road. She estimated that there are now 37. Change happens.

 

Chair Pogust said that the increase in housing on Roby Road is what happens when there aren’t regulations. Change can be controlled and if not, things will go in a direction that the residents don’t want to see. The Planning Board is trying to come up with some control that will keep things going in the direction the people want.

 

John Jones said he comes from a tiny town in Connecticut and the town is gone now because of progress. As far as enhancing the village atmosphere and reducing the number of acres from 2 to 1 is not going to make people in the village happier or make it friendlier. It is not going to enhance the character of Sutton Mills. He appreciated that the Planning Board was there and they were fortunate to have them there with their hearts in it. But they are asking for trouble when asking for a reduction to one acre lots. He is emotional about this because it is a beautiful place. He recalled a doctor’s office, and a gas station in the village in the past. Two acres should remain as the minimum. It isn’t up to Sutton Mills to solve the housing problem. There are better options elsewhere to address this need.

 

Chair Pogust said if a doctor wanted to open an office today, they would not be permitted to do so unless they lived in the same building. If two or three families moved into Sutton Mills, do they think it would ruin the atmosphere? They aren’t talking about apartment buildings. They are thinking about the potential for10 new homes/families to join the village over the next ten years. He isn’t trying to argue but it seems like people are saying that this friendly village doesn’t want anyone else to live there.

 

Kathleen Stowell said traffic is a concern of hers. She said pedestrian walkways can’t be implemented piecemeal. Adding smaller houses may be a good thing but one of the houses that have sold there recently is a vacation house and they wouldn’t want more of these in the village. They should have some control about this and the use of the buildings put there. This would change the character of the village. She thought they should look at some different ways to increase the tax base. Even though it is a choice and everyone doesn’t have to do it, if her neighbor decides to do something, she doesn’t have a say. Chair Pogust said Short Term Rentals (STR) can’t be regulated and anyone can do that with their real estate.

 

Chair Pogust said that traffic passing through the village isn’t something the Planning Board can control. In 1990 the Town was talking about the same thing (traffic). There are some things the Planning Board cannot control, such as the bridge that was mentioned earlier at the meeting. He didn’t think there would be a difference in traffic in the village with just a few more houses.

 

Joanna asked if new houses that go into this area will actually be affordable? Sutton Mills isn’t going to solve the housing issue. They have a tax problem in the state because it funds education through taxes. There are people in the town who can’t afford to live there because of the property taxes. They need to focus on that, not bringing more people in the area. They are just trying to live there and survive. Their natural resources are huge. They are in a climate crisis and they are talking about more development. They need to deal with lowering taxes and other issues in the town. Putting all this effort into this project is not the right time for this. Chair Pogust said they aren’t talking about solving all the problems, but just taking little steps. They’ll never move forward if they don’t take small steps. They have to be doing something.

 

Jason Teaster, Planning Board member, came into the project with similar concerns and said Joanna brings up good points. A lot of what was raised was not the purview of the Planning Board. They are trying to create an option that will allow a landowner to be able to do something with their property that might be able to keep with the character of the village and then go into the other villages to do this as well. The current zoning ordinance doesn’t allow these things. A developer can just come in and tear down a house and build something huge from one lot line to another. They are trying to put “guardrails” in to keep the character of the village and ultimately to all the villages. Jason said that his involvement in the PB has been a good education for him. They aren’t trying to change the world. They have deliberated and decided to do this in an incremental fashion so they aren’t taking the chunks on all at once.

 

Allison Jones said she grew up in the village and still is a resident of Sutton. She recalled Sutton Mills as being a very nice, bustling community when she was a child. She worried about additional septic systems near the water, as they already have problems with them. She thought that society has changed too much to make a few houses added to the village become a bustling, friendly community again. She said that today, people seem to be shut up in their houses. Chair Pogust said that there are new kinds of septic systems that use a very small footprint.

 

Lynn said it would be nice to have some younger blood involved in the town. New blood doesn’t need to be bad.

 

Kimberly Orbeck said when she first moved to Sutton, the house she lived in needed work and she made it better. Giant steps don’t need to be made all at once. Small steps are fine. She said that she didn’t want the town to change and felt it would be a domino effect.

 

Rachel Ortiz said some people have lived their whole life in the town and/or village. She and her husband moved there a few years ago. She felt bad that people could potentially sell off their property to provide for large development, which would take away trails and threaten wildlife in the area. They need to protect the things that have been there for years. Chair Pogust said if an owner wants to do something new, they may need to use some natural land. People have a right to do with their property what they choose. The townspeople will vote on this

 

Josh Ortiz suggested striking a pharmacy or a bank from the uses in the village. He didn’t think they would fit well in the community. When Chair Pogust why people felt those things wouldn’t fit, it was noted that they want it to remain a rural area. These things bring more traffic and more people, which is not what they want in the town.

 

Mark Rosenthal said he moved to Sutton from another town which was the fastest growing location in the country. He was a planning commissioner there. He said that they cannot stop change; it will happen. You can either manage it, or have it manage you. He thinks it is a mistake for people to not want additional buildings. If they don’t have effective ordinances, they don’t have an effective town.

 

Wally Baker, a Selectmen in Sutton, addressed the bridge in question earlier in the meeting. It is in the process to being repaired, but it is a slow process with approvals and engineering designs having to be made. He suggested coming up with a more concrete plan with regard to additional houses within the villages. He didn’t think it was fair to have the whole town vote on an area that will impact 16-17 families who live in the village.

 

Karen Booker said adding more houses, a pharmacy or bank adds more cars and traffic. After a show of hands indicating that none of those present would be in favor of having a bank or pharmacy as a permitted use in the village district, Chair Pogust said that those items would be removed from the list of permitted uses.

 

Karen asked if there was a way to encourage creative ways to create additional housing? Chair Pogust said that is what they are trying to do. They want to use these guardrails to prohibit certain things.

 

Rachel Ortiz asked if there was a way to have a historical district in the village. Chair Pogust said that those districts are very strict and are not what the people would want. It is a tight control; instead, the Planning Board is trying to create a little flexibility in the villages.

 

Mike Heffernan said he doesn’t feel the goals were stated and the presentation was poorly structured. Chair Pogust said the Powerpoint was meant to provide accents and reference points during the oral presentation. It wasn’t meant to represent everything.

 

Kathleen thought it would be better to present this overlay for all the villages at once. She felt it would be less of a problem for the people in Sutton Mills if it wasn’t just aimed at their village.

Chair Pogust said it takes a large amount of work to define the proposed village overlay districts, but that the Planning Board hoped to be able to present additional overlay districts for the other villages in time for the Town Meeting in 2025. It is not the intent of the Planning Board to wait and see what happens in Sutton Mills before proposing the other overlay districts, but to have everything established as quickly as can be done under the rules.

 

Chuck said he is on 1.5 acres; there are a lot of houses that are on less than 2 acres. Without them, the village would look much different. Matt Taylor from the Central NH Regional Planning Commission added that the average lot size in the Sutton Mills village is less than half an acre.

 

Lee Booker thanked the Board for their work and putting up with all of them.

 

Chair Pogust thanked everyone for coming to the meeting and providing their thoughts and input. He said the Board is hopeful that the people will digest the information and come back with questions.

 

The meeting was adjourned at 9:43pm

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Kristy Heath, Recording Secretary

Town of Sutton